12/16/2011

I'm Kind of a Package Deal

Story Sent in by Dorian:

Alana and I met online. She sounded too good to be true: young professional with a sharp sense of humor. I found myself asking, "Why isn't this girl taken yet?" Well, guess what? I found out why.

My first clue appeared after I suggested going to an upscale place. She said, "I don't know if that's really our speed. Maybe somewhere like a Friday's?"

Friday's, for those who don't know, is a chain restaurant. Not a bad place, and I didn't have a problem with going there, although, something about the way she asked to switch put me on guard.

I wasn't sure what it was until she arrived at the restaurant and all became clear: she had (what I guessed was) a three year old in tow, and he would not shut up.

"Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!" the three year old screamed in greeting.

"Uh, hi..." I replied.

"Yaaaaaaaaaagh!" three year old said.

Alana smiled. Aww. She said, "John-John, say hi to Mr. Dorian."

"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!" said John-John, screaming his guts inside-out.

I asked Alana, "Are you sitting for him, or is he—"

"Nope! He's one-hundred-percent mine!" she said with a big grin.

"Baaaaaaaaaaaagh!" John-John confirmed.

I said, "You forgot to mention that you have a child."

She shrugged. "It's not a big deal. He gets along with everyone."

Another couple walked by. John-John pointed at them and postulated, "Raaaaaaaaaaagh!" loud enough to wake Socrates himself from his deep, thanatological slumber.

I said, "I forgot to mention something, too: I really don't get along with loud, annoying kids."

Alana took slight offense to that, apparently, as she hugged sweet John-John closer to herself and said, "Well, I'm sorry but I'm kind of a package deal."

"It's okay," I said, "Good luck out there," and I left.

58 comments:

  1. OP is more than "kind of" an asshole. Yeah, she should have mentioned she has a child and that she would be bringing him along, but you don't just insult someone's kid. Team Alana.

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  2. OP, the fact that you used the word "thanatological" in this sours me to you. You don't sound like a very good-tempered guy...but of course she should have mentioned the kid and of course she should have left him home.

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  3. Yeah, OP, you were really the bigger jerk in this situation. Like others have said, she ought to have mentioned the kid, but your reaction was ridiculous and rude.

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  4. ^Really? I was going to comment to say that, based solely on the fact that he said "thanatological," I would have gone on a date with him.

    Also, the kid is only 50% hers, unless she hatched him through parthenogenesis, like a shark or whatever else can reproduce that way.

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  6. OP is totes a dick.

    "...I really don't get along with loud, annoying kids." is proof positive.

    Hmmmm...I wonder why HE isn't taken yet.

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  7. Lol, this bunch cracks me up. I guess you would all be on OP's team now if he had said, "even though she said nothing about bringing a child to a date, and the kid would not stop screaming, I went along with it because it was all going so well..." Yeah, he was kind of a dick about it, but he wasn't a pushover either, like so many others in ABCotD stories seem to be.

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  8. Well, I guess this makes me the minority, because I thought OP was hilarious. And I want to congratulate him on asserting his position boldly. Alana misrepresented herself, utterly wasted his time, and he called her out on it. Granted he was a bit rude - in his place, I probably would have left out the "loud, annoying" part and simply said I don't get along with kids. But Alana deserved to have her feelings hurt - partially for callously wasting the OPs time, but more importantly because negative conditioning will emphasize to her that what she did was WRONG. Thanks to men like the OP, Alana will hopefully start advertising that she has children... and that means men like me won't waste hours of our lives courting people like her before finding out about her little dealbreaker. As far as I'm concerned, he did us all a favor.

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  9. ^^ Also, LOL @ Churro's comment :-D

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  10. I feel bad for the poor kid. It's extremely hard to keep meeting different random men. If the girl introduces him to the kid on a first date, I have no idea how many 'Dads' the kid has been introduced to over his short life. Not to mention how excruciatingly boring it is for a kid to sit through an adult dinner.

    On the adult side... How would you possibly be able to give your full attention to the date when you have your child at your arm? Leave the kid at home. It's better for the kid and better for the mom.


    and you wouldn't wind up on this site.

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  11. Team OP/wolfdreams. If she decides to be an asshat and show up with an unexpected toddler, she deserves a figurative middle finger.

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  12. 1. Surprise third parties on a first date are bad form.
    2. Including children in the early stages of dating is bad parenting.

    Also, including a picture of yourself taken in a public bathroom (or a private bathroom for that matter) on your profile should be avoided. Oh sorry - that's a bit of topic isn't it...

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  13. team churro / wolfdreams

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  14. I have a son, and if someone had done that to me on a date, I'd have said the same thing. If not worse.

    Who takes their kid on a first date anyways? I personally, would never let anyone I was going on a date with meet my kid until way, way down the line when it was a positively serious relationship.

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  15. Team OP. Kids suck and secret kids are suckier.

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  16. Team OP - and Marie sums it up nicely.

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  17. Definitely team OP. I wonder why he didn't pick up on her use of "we" in their conversation.
    He may have been rude but that child DID sound loud and annoying so it might be a fair description.

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  18. Sounds like the women lucked out on this one.
    It's okay to be upset that someone wasn't up front about having a child, it's not okay to be rude to the child (who is really innocent here).

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  19. ^That child was obviously too buy screaming and being obnoxious to know or care that the man he had just been dragged out to meet was rude to him.

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  20. Which doesn't really change the fact that he was rude. His mother still heard.

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  21. I think they're both wrong. As others have said, OP didn't have to say "loud annoying kids," he could have just said he didn't get along with kids. On the other hand, Alana was definitely wrong by bringing the kid with her, with no notice to OP. If she couldn't get a babysitter she should have called OP to either cancel or ask if she could bring the kid with her -- either would have given OP a chance to back out.

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  22. I made a point earlier about how negative conditioning will emphasize to Alana that what she was doing (failing to mention she had a kid) was wrong, and I think this applies equally to little Jon-Jon. Obviously I feel bad for the kid, but he WAS being rude, and rude people (of any age) need negative conditioning to recognize the inappropriateness of their behavior so that they stop doing it and learn to assimilate harmoniously into society. It's not like the OP smacked the kid or anything.

    While *I* would never have been as rude as the OP was, I think that's more of a failing on my part rather than the OPs. I'm selfish enough (and I admit this is a flaw on my part) that I wouldn't think of teaching Alana a lesson, since the only people who would benefit from her hopefully improved behavior would be other guys whom I don't know or care about. Plus I don't like to make enemies unless there's some benefit or it's REALLY funny. But OP was thoughtful enough to pass on a lesson to both Alana and Jon-Jon that will benefit anybody else whom they interact with in the future, and I for one appreciate his consideration.

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  23. I disagree that the OP should have just said he didn't get along with all kids, and the "loud and annoying" part was unnecessary. Maybe the OP does like children, especially children he's been told about beforehand in the initial getting-to-know-you process, and ones who have been taught how to behave in public.

    Without knowing if John-John had a hidden disability or something, it sounds like his mother is one of those who thinks her precious can do no wrong. Everyone should instantly love and cherish him as she does regardless of his behavior, which she doesn't try to correct in any way and probably doesn't believe in telling him no. If so, worst mother ever and OP dodged a bullet.

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  24. wolfdreams01, did you ever see a child in your life?

    "rude people (of any age)"?!? Newsflash: Kids are not tiny adults. I thought that idiocy died out with child labour in many parts of the world.

    "negative conditioning"?!? Kids aren't dogs either. "How to train up your child" is a terrible, terrible book, not something to be admired.

    For fuck's sage, you're bitching that a three years old is going "Blaaargh". I guess next you're yelling at babies for not being able to use the toilet.

    I sincerely hope you get a clue before getting any children of your own (if you're so inclined).

    The same applies to Lime Coconut.

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  25. TEAM OP ----------- I bet alot of the negative comments are from single mother who hold a grudge on guys who avoid woman with kids... LOL.. Point is she should of told him that is one of the biggest things and she simply forgets to mention it? If shes kind of a ''package deal'' how come she only mention a small portion of that ''deal''... She wasted his time, she probably assumed she could win him over before the 'date with her child'... NOPEEEE!! ARGHHHHHHHH!

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  26. wolfdream01 - i agreed with your first comment but as for your second.. A kid (Toddler at that.) will always act there age, the toddler was NOT being rude, he was being a 3 year old. And you would never say something NOT because you're selfish but because you are most likely passive and dont have the gulls (aka balls). You probably look up to the people who do but could never do it yourself. Nothing bad about that i'm passive as well (ofcourse theres always a breaking point. But i wouldn't of said that either.)

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  28. ^ 09c5 - you may be right, but I'm not really sure how it matters in the long run. OK, maybe the kid was acting his age, but at a certain point in life he's going to have to learn that screaming in public is NOT ok. Why does it matter if he gets a taste of that concept at age 3? Are kids supposed to be able to do whatever they want until some magic age where all of a sudden you impose all the rules and discipline in them? Of course not, it's a gradual process. I don't advocate negative conditioning to PUNISH Jon-Jon, simply to teach him what societies expectations are. Honestly I feel bad for the kid, it's gotta be rough having a mom like that.

    @ Dr McCoy: My issue with you isn't what you said, even though it's obviously wrong. Most rational psychological theory recognizes that humans ARE animals, and society is a social construct that must be trained - which makes conditioning a perfectly valid and pragmatic viewpoint. No, my problem with you is that you hear a point of view you disagree with, argue that the POV is wrong without offering any logical backing to your claims, and reflexively start spewing personal insults as if they will substantiate your claims. I'm guessing that you're a loser who hasn't done much with their life because generally people who mistake personal insults for rational debate tend to be underachievers.

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  29. wolfdreams01 - I love you. Obviously in a totally-platonic-*cough*-want-to-have-your-babies-*cough*-admirationy kind of way.

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  30. wolfdreams01: Oh, the tone argument, how novel.

    And backing up claims? Like your "logical backing up" of some uncited "Most rational psychological theory recognizes that humans ARE animals" (which has nothing to do with what I'm actually arguing)?

    As for my life (insert an eye roll for that pathetic arm-chair psychology here) I'm not the one here who's completely anonymous, that would be you. My website is linked on my profile page, my real name is easily findable, and I'm quite happy with what I have achived in my various open source projects. Hell, the actual problem I'm having is that I'm doing /too much/ with my life, and often can't focus on one thing to bring it to completion. But that's neither here nor there.

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  31. There's nothing like letting your attempt at discourse suddenly and irrationally devolve into an ad hominem attack...

    "well you see the theory of evolution states that it is survival of...you're a poopoo head!"

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  32. You're right, Jonathan, this is far beneath me. I blame my extra crankyness on my cold and on sleep deprivation.

    What got my goat in wolfdreams01's original comment is twofold:
    1. It seems to argue for "disciplining"/spanking children that behave even slightly different from a fairy-tale "perfect child" model, coupled with dehuminizing language and a gross oversimplification of how society works. I have a zero tolerance for beating children; in my eyes, it is abuse and a sign that you fail as a parent.
    2. It shows notions of a general anti-children stance I've seen in a lot of other people (who then argue for a ban of children in restaurants, airplanes or public space in general). I find that highly irritating.

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  33. *pulls up a chair to watch the comments*

    Personal comments and snark aside, a person may not like to hear it called 'conditioning' or 'training', but that is what we do to each other. When a child is punished by his parents or shunned by his peers, he learns not to do the thing that got him punished, or that the behavior that led to his shunning was unacceptable. It's not pleasant, but it's just what humans do. If he's not punished, he's not going to know what he's doing is wrong, and once he gets old enough to know on his own he very well may not care, because he hasn't had any reason to care about consequences before.

    I might have sounded like a jerk earlier, but I personally don't mind that a three year old acts like a three year old. His responsibility for his own actions is limited. I do care that his mother evidently doesn't see anything wrong with his behavior, or her own. Rudeness may or may not teach her that it's unacceptable, but it's a lot more likely to than making an excuse or even being polite but truthful. And on a more personal-toward-the-story note, I just don't see a whole lot of reason to be gentle with her feelings when she is so obviously, clearly, deeply in the wrong, which I think everyone so far has agreed upon.

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  34. ^And now I'm late to the party. Oh well. Oh, and totally on board with there being no excuse for hitting a child, and I really hope no one was actually talking about that.

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  35. Did anyone say we wanted her to beat/spank the child? Did wolfdreams say that? Because if he did, I sincerely can't find it.

    I'm talking about the fact that in the story, we don't see her say/do didly squat to her son at all to try to stem the behavior. Not one glance to the side to show she even noticed he was yelling in the first place, not one "sush," picking him up, handing him something to distract him, etc.

    And my interpretation of the scene and her parenting skills could be completely wrong. Maybe she was trying to ignore it on purpose to get him to stop on his own, maybe she did do something off camera we're not privy to, maybe she doesn't see it as a problem as we do. Maybe she's the best mother ever, though I would argue that the very fact John-John there says otherwise.

    Of course he was just acting like a 3-year old, I blame him for nothing. But 3-year olds understand words, and how are they to learn if you don't start to teach them? Kids are amazing and can start to learn all kinds of stuff at a very early age if you bother to try. If there had been one small line where she'd said "inside voice" or tried anything, then I wouldn't have as high a negative opinion of her as I do now.

    I am not anti-child, I am anti-stupid parents. Animals teach their children how to behave too, it they didn't they would die. Don't be an advocate for John-John's death, that's just rude.

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  36. @Dr McCoy: Sorry, I didn't read your blog. I'm sure it's very inspiring, but I'm sort of a busy person. And who says I'm anonymous? I'm already told people MULTIPLE times in previous threads that I'm a dog who uses the computer when his owner is out. Why is that so hard to understand? As for using an esily searchable real-life identity to post here, I don't think that exactly makes a strong argument for your intelligence. ABCotD posters can be clever, hilarious, and even adorable, but they can also be fucking nuts. (No offense.)

    And what do you mean, "the tone argument?" In the middle of a perfectly civil and polite debate, YOU suddenly used the word "idiocy" to describe views that differed from yours, and went on to tell me to "get a clue." That's not "tone"; just you being a rude jackass. Nevertheless, even though you had time to be rude, you clearly didn't have time to make any sort of case for WHY you feel humans are not fundamentally animals. I see that this view bothers you, I totally get that, but if you're unable to verbalize any sort of rational explanation beyond "I don't like that philosophy and it bothers me" then you need to take some time to re-examine your views because they're clearly flawed.

    Also, you're using the classic M.O. of people who lack a strong case, which is to distort what the other person said to make it sound more extreme than it is. Nobody said anything about spanking or physical discipline except you, yet you're trying to put words in my mouth and make it seem like I'm advocating corporal punishment. In fact, I even made the distinction earlier that the OP did NOT smack the child or do anything physical. If twisting my words is for you a natural debate tactic, you might want to spend less time on your blog and more time in real-life social scenarios, because I have NEVER seen this crap fly in the business world (at least, not successfully).

    @Mellor - Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore you, I just wanted to address the irrational stuff coming off of Dr McCoy's keyboard, because it annoyed me. I would gladly have your babies, Mellor... if only I were human and not simply a dog using the computer when nobody's watching. So the best we can hope for is a tragic romance, or possibly a Bad Date. ;-)

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  37. Ahhh wolfdreams, what with your caninicity ours is a love forbidden by both church and state. Fortunately our tragic romance leads naturally into a movie of the week with nice fat royalty cheques which should help to soften the tragedy a bit.

    I'd respond to McCoy as well but I know I'll just get annoyed and the last time I facepalmed myself that hard I knocked myself unconscious for a week.

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  38. Completely on the side of Lime and Wolf here, there was no attempt at any kind of behaviour management (I wont call it discipline or some people may think I mean hitting).
    My main problem is her not being up front about having a child at all, that kind of thing is (whether people like it or not) a dealbreaker for some.

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  39. I really have nothing to say, I had several opinions, views and comments and ALL of them seem to have been voiced already.

    Wolfdreams, always a pleasure reading your comments and DrMcCoy, lighten up. This is a happy place where we get critique (and very often ridicule and judge) people on bad dates (and someone named Kate Weber), not each other.

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  40. After my divorce I started dating and I must say I never brought my children on the first date. I can'y imagine when that would be a good idea at all. I always let whomever I was going on the date with upfront that I had two children. I respect the fact that not everyone likes/wants kids, therefore I would not want to waste their time or mine.

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  41. Those who don't discipline and teach correct behaviour to their kids, end up with brats.

    Those who think theres 'no excuse for hitting a child' are really living on another planet. Of course, theres a difference between a disciplinary smack and abuse, but there are definitely occasions in most childrens lives where a smack is the best form of correction.

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  42. I think that in this case, you had to have been there. There is so much about the way people act in person that just cannot be expressed in words from memory.

    That being said, the OP does make himself sound like a douche and the lady should def have mentioned the kid. My gf had a 2 year old when I met her and she was honest about it. We are still together 3 years later.

    Diff strokes fo' diff folks

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  43. It's sad that the discussion devolved into a "should we let kids totally run wild?" debate.

    The core issue is very simple: bringing any third party on a date is a grotesquely rude and inappropriate thing to do, and doubly so if done as a "surprise". This applies whether said third party is 3 or 93, as wild as a bull moose or as mannered as a Tibetan monk.

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  44. Why is this so complicated? No kids on dates, unless it's a fucking playdate. The end.

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  45. Why is this so complicated? No kids on dates, unless it's a fucking playdate. The end.

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  46. Why is this so complicated? No kids on dates, unless it's a fucking playdate. The end.

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  47. Why is this so complicated? No kids on dates, unless it's a fucking playdate. The end.

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  48. Why is this so complicated? No kids on dates, unless it's a fucking playdate. The end.

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  49. >> Alana took slight offense to that, apparently, as she hugged sweet John-John closer to herself and said, "Well, I'm sorry but I'm kind of a package deal."

    No shit she took offense, douchebag.

    She's dishonest, but you're a douche. Douche.

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  50. Aw man, I was excited when I saw there was 6 new comments on here. Sadly, five of them were from some retard, and the other was from some douche.

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  51. his mother deserves it, not being able to bring up a child turning him into a screaming monster

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  52. I agree that it's bad parenting to bring your child on a first date, so I have no sympathy for the woman at all.

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  53. Weird...My name is Alana almost thought this was about me...but I don't have any kids :3

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  54. Weird...My name is Alana almost thought this was about me...but I don't have any kids :3

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